Negretti & Zambra
I was talking to a friend the other day about something we both love: old brass instruments. Sextants, telescopes, astrolabes, marine clocks, that sort of thing. He told me about a London company who, when the British Empire was absolutely at its zenith, led the world in the manufacture of specialist brass instruments: Negretti & Zambra.
Enrico Negretti and Joseph Zambra started their company in 1850, which was run by them and their descendents until well after WWII. They had shops firstly in Regent Street and later on at Holborn Viaduct. The company was highly successful from the start, winning a medal at the Great Exhibition in 1851 and counting among their customers the Astronomer Royal, Prince Albert, the Royal Observatory and Admiral Robert Fitzroy. In the early days they specialised in barometers and thermometers, particularly those required for taking deep sea and atmospheric measurements, which until they came on the scene were terribly unreliable. Later on they increased their range to include telescopes, gun sights, theodolites and similar optical instruments. During World War II, N&Z expanded substantially to meet the demand for instruments for war planes in particular. Their instruments were also produced under licence to supply the USAAF.
Read more about this remarkable London company here, here and here. In particular, look out for the bizarre story of how Enrico Negretti successfully pursued a private prosecution for a murder, resulting in both “his” suspect and the Crown’s suspect being convicted for the same offence.
Negretti & Zambra instruments can still be purchased at reasonable prices, typically anything between £50 and £300.
Update: a reader writes:
This is in a wooden box which says H.M.S. TAKU HAI-HSI 17th JUNE,1900. (this is inlaid brass on top of box) The item (s) in this box consist of a brass rectangular and trianglar top. Maybe a shade of some sort. On one side it says Negretti & Zambra, London, in script engraved in the brass, the other side says Hirsbrunner & Co. Shanghai. also engraved in the brass. The box also has a very heavy steel item that looks like a small can, with a “cone” shape top, there is also a very heavy steel “tray”. Each item has it’s own seperated compartment to keep each item from moving.The box is heavy, hand made with brass hinges, tiny lock, and one handle on one end. It was in my late father’s possessions. When he was very young he was in the Navy, his life’s occupation was an inventor of optometric instruments, an optomitrist, with a passion for sailing. He also lectured and traveled all over the world. Any information you could provide would be sincerely appreciated.
Check out the images below. If any experts on nautical weather or navigation instruments have any clues, please let us know via Comments or by email to admin@londonhistorians.org.
I have a negretti & zambra item, dont know what it really is but it has a glass ball, and a big and heavy soild brass looking base. that i would love to find out what it really is also it has a number imprinted on it m/5363. if you can help please contact me
Thanks
It’s a Campbell-Stokes Sunshine Recorder. The glass ball burned a trace on a graduated card that slid into the base.
Dave Day
dear sir I have an old telescope in my possession and was advised you may be able to give some history on same lettering reads “THE SYME’ NEGRETTI@ZAMBRA LONDON 0/419 AGENT J.H.WILLIAMS MELBOURNE .any info would be greatfully appreciated.regards pgm
Hello PGM. I am sorry but I cannot help regarding the telescope. Unfortunately all of my old telescope catalogues are gone, apart from access to the 1886 Encyclopaedic edition which does not mention the name “Syme”. As to the Melbourne Agent J.H.Williams this would probably have been between WWI and II since as far as I recall there was a Negretti & Zambra Pty in Melbourne after WWII.
Dave Day
Hi Dwayne, merely a fan of this stuff, by no means an expert, but if you mail me a picture to admin@londonhistorians.org, I’ll post it and maybe one of our readers can help. Cheers, Mike.
Had been a (stick) barometer fan of Negretti & Zambra since I first saw one in Vancouver 5 years but the sale had to be aborted because I coudn’t take it with me in the cabin on the return plane trip home. Just recently bought an equivallent one from England(late Victorian, 1899 -1900) .Both the glass pane thermometer cover & the inner mercury glass tube were broken in several places either before shipment or in transit. Repairs set me back 50% of the original value but was indemnified 1/2 of this amount by PayPal which garnisheed the seller’s account. Still no regrets.
In hanging the barometer in our upstairs gallery, I discovered covered after Canadian repairs that it was warped in its main wooden stem. This ins’t noticeable when looking directly at it.
Has anyone else had a simialr warping experience for a barometer – stick or long banjo types ?
Thanks ; Peter
Hi I have a negrety & zambra telescope in a leather case.
It has a date of 1894 on it and has the name I Erwin
etched on it. I have no clue where it came from and
who had fist owned it!
Any info would be a great help than you……..
Hello Mike, I don’t think I can be much help I’m afraid. The most of what I know about N&Z is what you see on this post. I am an admirer of brass instruments, certainly not an expert. It is likely that N&Z produced thousands of these things and probably it would have belonged to an officer in either the British Army or Royal Navy, but it’s dangerous to make assumptions. If you were determined enough you probably could find out the identity of I Erwin, but it could be a long road. Personally, I would start with the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich.
The rather interesting instrument shown as coming from H.M.S. TAKU HAI-HSI is in fact an Artificial Horizon which was used on board ship or on land when the true horizon was invisible.
The tray was filled with mercury (which is why the flask is so heavy as the mercury is almost certainly still inside) and the cover placed over the top to prevent surface disturbance. A sextant was then used to take a sight through the glass to the reflection of the observed object on the surface of the mercury. I think the observed angle was in fact twice the true angle but some research would clarify this.
The last item I had like this was in fact about 40 years older and sold for £150.00
Richard M
Thanks, Richard, excellent input. I hope I can find the person who originally sent the pictures, I’ll let him/her know. But quite a while ago.
Further to my previous comment the following link gives the history of HMS Taku which in fact was a Chinese warship captured on the first day of the Boxer Rebellion. A very interesting piece of provenance for the Artificial Horizon in question http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_1900
Richard M
Hi Richard, I find it a mystery as The HMS Taku suppose was the original Chinese “Hai Lung” (or “Hai Loong” in some translation) – the name ship of the class. And “Hai Hsi” was her sister ship that allotted to Germany. How come the box printed “late HAI HSI”?
yes i have the round glass ball with sliding card…what does wort m/5363..it is all brass
Roy – from your description it is a Campbell-Stokes Sunshine Recorder. The Glass Ball is mounted on a black painted brass frame. A graduated card slides into grooves behind the ball and the ball acting as a burning glass burns a trace on the card as the sun transits the sky. There are usually three shapes of card depending on winter, summer or equinox. The recorder is aimed North and the adjustable curved mount is set to the latitude of observation.
hola buen dia mi nombre es mauricio de argentina vivo en cipolletti rio negro,tengo un G.S.TELESCOPE X 8 NEGRETTI & ZAMBRA LONDON 1917 TODO DE BRONCE PRECIOSO QUISIERA SABER SU VALOR ESTA EN MUY BUENAS CONDICIONES.MUCHAS GRACIAS!!
A late reply to the potted history 23rd Sept 2010 by Mike Paterson. Enrico (Henry) Negretti and Joseph Zambra formed their partnership on the 24th April 1850 in Hatton Garden, London. They occupied various premises over the ensuing years eventually openening 38 Holborn Viaduct in 1869. They acquired the 122 Regent Street premises from James Newman in 1862 but it remained their secondary premises until 1941 when 38 Holborn Viaduct was destroyed by incendiaries during the Blitz.
Regarding Telescopes, Negretti & Zambra only got fully involved in their manufacture when they bought the Half Moon Crescent, Barnsbury business of Captain Hammersley in 1899.
An excellent website about the company can be found via Barometer World, Merton, Devon.
Hi, I just purchased a beautiful negretti and Zambra mahogany barometer. The number on it is R/11231. I know nothing about it and was wondering if someone could help?
Are you sure that it is not a Barograph which records on a paper chart. The serial No. prefix ‘R’ was usually for recording instruments. Anyway, that sequence of numbering started with R101 in 1920. My Barograph is R31507 dated around 1965 so I guess yours must be around the 1930s or 40s.
A photo might help
Dave Day – Ex N&Z
Hi Sarah. Further to my comments on 7th March if you can email me a photo I will try to narrow things down a bit.
Dave Day
HI Dave Day
I used to work, though very briefly in the sales office, for N&Z during the early 70 s and doing a bit of research on the company and employees. I remember your name. If you have contact with any other of our colleagues I would be interested in hearing from you
Cheers
Tony Stamp
Hello Tony. I vaguely remember you but not with certainty. Names you may know from the early 70s are, Bob Evans, Trevor Avery, Norman Bidwell, George A Brown, Malcolm Beechey, Jack White, Bill MacDowell. There are many more. If you would like more info in private then email me at diddy11cg@talktalk.net
Dave Day
I have a N.Z. Barometer, (ship type) I was told it came from the ill fated H.M.S Affray, It was replaced in her last refit, before she was lost, there is a serial number under the N.Z, LONDON 16559 I was wondering if there were records, that could match up the barometer, with the Affray, martin.phillips97@ntlworld.com
Hello Martin. I regret that all records of Negretti & Zambra Barometers have long gone. The serial number is not traceable. Since HMS Affray was a submarine that was lost in 1951, having been launched around 1944/45 the barometer is not exactly an antique. I am assuming that it is an aneroid barometer but with the pressures on a sub I woujld have thought that it might have an extended range, It would surely only been of use when she was on the surface. As MOD property it might have had the old Board of Trade Broad Arrow symbol on it.
Dave Day
Hi Dave. Thanks very much for fielding these more tech queries on this blog post. I wouldn’t have clue: this post was initially just basics about a London manufacturer. 🙂
Hi,Dave, thanks for getting back to me, Yes, I was a bit sceptical about having a barometer on a sub, but I have researched this a little, & there are a few pictures on google images of aneroid barometers on subs , on mine, there is a small brass bar that stops the pointer going any further than 1030 millibars , on the outer edge, theres a red zone from 820 millibars to 882 millibars, which I hav’nt seen on any other ship type barometers , Martin
Hello Martin. I had a look through a couple of old N&Z catalogues that I still possess but couldn’t find anything that fitted the description. The brass bar is obviously aan overload protector. The lower pressures of 820 to 882mb have foxed me since they would be more appropriate for a mountain barometer. Perhaps subs operated at below atmospheric when submerged. The most knowledgeable person I know is Philip Collins of Barometer World in Merton, near Okehampton. His email is barometers@barometerworld.co.uk and, if you want to pusue it, he may help, depending on how busy he is!!
Dave Day
Greetings all. An item that came to us is a N & Z Gravatt’s or dumpy level. Under the company name is the number 5128. The US Smithsonian Institute on line digital library displays N & Z price list/catalog. Otherwise there is little info available on their surveying instruments. We would want to know when this may have been manufactured. Thank you.
Gary W
Hi there. Dave Day, ex Negretti & Zambra. The Gravatt’s or Dumpy Level is illustrated in the N &Z Encyclopaedic Catalogue of 1886. It probably featured in earlier editions. Whether N&Z actually ever manufactured them is in doubt since they factored an enormous amount of stuff. Interestingly, they acquired the effects of Captain Hammersley’s Telescope and Surveying Instrument business in 1899 and may well have sold his equipment prior to that. If you email me at diddy11cg@talktalk.net I will send the page from the catalogue as an attachment. As to actual date of instrument No. 5128 it is virtually impossible to tell.
Regards
Dave Day
Good Evening
I have recently dug out of my Grandfathers loft a Negretti & Zambra E-45109.
It has also has Batch R13 marked on it and some other details as in EXT RES 7.OHMS Int RES 79 OHMS A.C.J
Its very heavy, black with white face black numbering.
The gauge has a glass front and is curved and looks like it should sit in a dashboard or similar.
Just wondering if anyone has any ideas as to what it is?
Kind Regards
Lee
Hello Mr.Sainsbury. What you have sounds like a Negretti & Zambra Aetec Pyrometer. It is a self powered electrical temperature gauge actuated by a sensor called a thermocouple usually connected to the indicator by special cable called compensating cable. Batch R13 denotes the type of sensor i.e. Iron/Constantan or Chromel/Alumel or Platinum/Rhodium (can’t remember which). The “hot” junction where the different metal wires are joined produces an electrical voltage proportional to the temperature which is measured by the indicator calibrated in temperature. The external resistance of the thermocouple and associated compensating cable must be balanced at 7 Ohms usually with a wire wound resistor. The letters ACJ stand for Automatic Cold Junction Compensation but how this works I cannot remember. The instrument would have been flush mounted in a control panel with special mounting brackets. Without the thermocouple it is so much junk. If I can track down what Batch R13 is I will let you know. Several companies still make thermocouples and supply compensating cable.
Regards, Dave Day, Ex N&Z
Thank you so much Dave that is very much appreciated. Still more to come from loft so the rest could be there also.
Lee
Ok Lee. I have tracked down the Thermocouple details. The Negretti & Zambra Type R13 is a rare metal thermocouple using 13% Platinum, Rhodium alloy wire and pure Platinum wire. BS4937 Type R. This and the associated compensating cable can be purchased nowadays from:
TC Ltd.
P.O. Box 130
UXBRIDGE
UB8 2YS
United Kingdom
info@tc.co.uk
Regards,
Dave Day
Hi I have a Negretti & Zambra item which I believe is a railway expansion gauge, I was wondering if you knew anything about this or can provide any info. Thanks Ian
Sounds like a Rail Track Thermometer. A Glass thermometer tube was set in a copper plate with measurements as well as a temperature scale. The thermometer was laid on the track across the join in the rails. The surface temperature associated with the measurement was to predict when expansion of the rail would cause the gap to narrow and subsequently the rails meet which would cause severe buckling and thus a train crash. There are several good photos around showing the effects. I don’t know how to attach a photo to this site so if you email me diddy11cg@talkltalk.net I will attach a photo.
Coincidentally, N&Z was established on the 24th April 1850.
Regards
Dave Day – Ex N&Z
It sounds like a rail track thermometer. I posted a fairly comprehensive reply but it seems to have disappeared. email me at diddy11cg@talktalk.net and I will attach a photo.
Thanks, Dave. Found your first comment, now also published below. Not sure why I needed to approve your comments, a WordPress thing, I guess. Thanks for continuing to field these queries about N&Z.
Thanks for the reply Mike. I was expecting Ian Fargie to reply so I could send him a photo of the item that I think he is on about. I don’t know how to attach a photo to this site. I may have touched the WordPress icon by mistake (finger trouble).
I have had a pair of Brass and Black trimmed, adjustable Negretti & Zambra London Binoculars, the name is on both eye pieces…I hate to just throw them in a garage sale as I think they belong in some sort of collection. I looked on line but they seem to have made all sorts of thing but no mention of Binoculars…perhaps they were a one off….what do I do with them?
Hi Tim – Dave Day ex N&Z. Can’t help a great deal re binoculars. The company certainly dealt in various types and also telescopes. They sold them right from the beginning in the 1850s but probably didn’t actually manufacture them until they bought the Barnsbury factory of Captain Hammersley in 1899. He made various optical instruments. Unfortunately I got rid of my Binocular Catalogue a few years ago. I don’t think that they are particularly collectable apart from of course the name Negretti & Zambra. Interesting types like the Pocket Folding Minim and various Opera Glasses are more interesting.. Why not put them on ebay? I used to work with a John Devlin at N&Z in London.
Regards
Dave Day
I worked there 1n 1958 in the drawing office,known as hairy nit in the factory we had to walk through.Loved the factory they were really good thay made me a valve guide for my old royal enfield,case hardened it and ground valve in.Nothing those engineers couldn’t do.
You are right about the old Negretti & Zambra engineers although you do not say whether you were at Half Moon Works in London or Stocklake, Aylesbury.. Sadly the place has long gone, like all the rest of the UK engineering industry. As an old Enzedder remarked to me recently , “All of the old engineers are now stocking the shelves at Tesco”.
Regards, Dave Day N&Z 1956 to 1999.
We have a query from a reader, in German, which I’ve had translated. If you know the answer, David, perhaps put it here and I’ll also have it translated back. Thanks. Message reads.
Hello , I bought a N & Z Thermo Hygrographs .
This device has the
Serial No .: R / 44050 , Range : T.15 / 40 ° C , H. 10/110 % ,
Chart No. TH / W / 1717 / Z .
Unfortunately, I find no information on this device .
What year was it made?
Where you get spare parts or writing stripes for this device.
Would be glad if you could help me .
Sincerely
Thomas Giljohann
Ref your Enquiry about the Thermo-Hygrograph.
I cannot say when it was made since all records have long been destroyed but from the length of the serial number I would guess sometime in the 1950s. It was affectionately known as The Rat Trap.
Temperature (Temperatur) is measured by a Bimetallic Coil and Humidity (Feuchtigkeit) by a skein of specially treated human hair which lengthens when humidity is high and vice versa.
Spare Charts, Pens and Ink should be available from the following address.
Russell Scientific Instruments Ltd.
Rash’s Green Industrial Estate
Dereham
Norfolk
NR19 1JG
UK
Contact, Edward Allen
sales@russell-scientific.co.uk
+ 44 (0)1362 693481
Regards,
Dave Day
Thanks, Dave, I’ve advised the fellow in Germany who made the query.
This note is to ask if you have any knowledge about the Eagle Aircraft Cameras. I used to work for Williamson Mfg Co. in Willesdon, London during the 1960s and towards the end recall that Negretti & Zambra either bought them out or got a controlling interest. Would anyone have any idea of what happened to Williamsons. They not only made aircraft cameras but were involved with developing hand-held cameras, X-Ray processing machines and photo printing equipment especially for Agfa. The Managing Director was John Odle, Ian Hunter was a fellow Director and Barry Haywood was the person in charge of development. Thank you Brian Gilbert
WILLIAMSON MFG CO LTD
In 1967 Negretti & Zambra acquired 100% of the Williamson Manufacturing Co. of Willesden who made Aerial Cameras and X-Ray Film Processing Equipment, Silver Recovery Units and their odd subsidiary company Willesden Engineering a car body repair shop. The Negretti & Zambra Group was formed and together with Williamson’s also included Mechanism of Croydon purchased the same year which made aircraft Instrumentation. The last of the Negretti & Zambra Meteorological Instruments manufacture was transferred from temporary accommodation at the Kentish Town premises of Wilson & Warden to the Williamson factory in Hawthorn Road Willesden and was administered by Jim Haggata. I have no details of the name “Eagle” Aircraft Cameras.
Paul Anthony (Tony) Negretti stood down as Chairman of the Negretti & Zambra Group in 1971 and John Odle became the new Group Chairman until he retired in 1975. John Odle was also Chairman of the Photogrammic Society concerned with aerial map making.
Ian Hunter moved to Development at the Negretti & Zambra Aylesbury premises and was involved for some years on the development of a Peritoneal Dialysis device but I have no idea if it ever reached the market. I believe that after the Williamson business ceased manufacture that he founded a new Williamson Company somewhere in South London with Jim Haggata to supply precision metering pumps but cannot be sure.
I have no knowledge of Barry Haywood.
James Williamson (1855-1933), the founder was a pioneer of early cinematography. His story can be found on the following website http://www.screenonline.org.uk/people/id/519902/
Hope this is of interest.
Dave Day, ex N&Z diddy11cg@talktalk.net
Further to my reply about Williamsons. I made an error about Ian Hunter. It was not he who relocated to Aylesbury but Jim Turner. It was Jim who developed the Peritoneal Dialysis machine and who then established a new company to market the Gorman Rupp dosing & metering pumps. I think that Ian Hunter retained a place on the Group Board for a while.
I have a compass company negretti and zambra serial no 81794 king edward vii 1841 i need advice cus i want to sell this .CAn anyone please contact me on jrehman@outlook.com or call 07542819611.l dont know were i can sell this at ebay .auction
Or privately thx.
Thanks for this. Lucky you to own such a nice item. While you may get an answer here, it’s unlikely that someone will contact you directly (although I may be wrong). Just to say, we’re a history club, not really in the business of helping people buy and sell stuff, and even then that would be confined to our Members.
Ref your Compass. King Edward vii reigned from 1901 to 1911 so I don’t know where you get the date 1841. In any event, Negretti & Zambra were not founded until 1850. If you look up “Antique Compasses” under “Collectables” on ebay you will see several pages full. The Negretti & Zambra catalogue of 1886 has nine pages of various types. Unless the compass has some sort of provenance you will have take the ebay listings as guide.
Dave Day, ex N&Z
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/56434#page/7/mode/1up
Yes ariel. That is the University of California, Berkeley copy of the 1886 Negretti & Zambra Encylopaedic Catalogue all 602 pages of it. I have a full copy on my laptop.
Hello Dave,
I have a N&Z altimeter I want to restore. It needs some work. Can you recommend someone?
John Cory (USA) jcory@nj.rr.com
Hello John Don’t know anyone in USA. Reputable UK company that deals and refurbishes can be contacted at kate@vavasseur-antiques.com They are based in Shropshire. email and ask the question. They specialise in N&Z instruments.
Regards
Dave Day
Hello Mike,
I have recently procured a N&Z Binnacle Compass.
It has a serial number 1332.
I am lovingly restoring it to be a showpiece in my house.
Is there anyone I could contact to find out its history.
Kind regards
Steve.
smanoel@heiniger.com.au
Hi,
My father, who recently passed away, left me some lovely items he had collected. One is a Negretti & Zambra (London) barometer in a plain circular wooden surround. It is marked with the number R/15511. I’d be very grateful for any info about it’s history. Many thanks!
Tom
Hello Tom – Dave Day, EX N&Z, unofficial historian. All records of serial numbers long destroyed. However, the ‘R’ Serial No sequence started with R101 in 1921. My barograph Serial No. R31507 is circa 1965 so yours is considerably older so if we split the difference, allowing for reduced domestic production during WWII it could be about 1945, maybe earlier. It is an aneroid barometer and with the N&Z name is probably collectable although they don’t fetch very much.They made quite a few with various designs of wood surround, some extremely ornate.
Regards.
Thank you, Dave! Very much appreciated.
All the best, Tom
My Maternal Grandfather, Edward Grant, worked for Negretti & Zambra for many years, including the second world war. Sadly, he died of cancer in 1963, not long after I was born. We still have a Negretti & Zambra Maximum/Minimum thermometer at home, and it still works perfectly. We have shown it to people who have been astonished when shown the tiny hair that keeps each steel pin from sliding back down the tubes. That’s quality work.
Ted Grant was one of the old stalwarts of N&Z. His brother Bill, your maternal great uncle was Works Manager. Take a look at Negretti & Zambra Remembered on Facebook.